And again, people, including Penn administrators, have the perception of I think the stereotype and my friend Anea Moore, whos a Rhodes Scholar and graduate of Penn who founded Penn first or co-founded it had a really great quote in The New Yorker about we arent all, quote-unquote something along the lines of like impoverished, inner city kids who go to crumbling public schools as the wider media portrays us to be. Mackenzie went to a private prep school, Whitfield, in St. Louis and was an active student. Fierceton says she had not failed any tests; her Whitfield transcript shows she got a B+ in the class. But afterwards she was anxious enough about how her mother might react to remain on the other side of the kitchen counter island from Morrison while they talked in the kitchen, "bracing for impact", she wrote in her diary. And theres also literature thats economic literature versus sociology, different fields have different perspectives on what that relationship between foster care and the criminal justice system is and what the causes are. The Inquirer story came out in November 2020. Thank you so much for having me. [2][4][15], After learning this, Fierceton and a fellow SP2 student began doing research. And do you know Linda Tirado? And then theres the part that felt like: I have no idea whats going to convince these people if I gave them medical records, I gave them forensic photos of me taken in the hospital, I gave them again like corroboration from professors of like how I described myself, from leaders in the FIGLY community. A cousin who lived with the Morrisons for a while did not see any signs of abuse and believed it was possible Fierceton could have inflicted the injuries herself. Mackenzie Morrison was born Mackenzie Terrell but took her mother's name after her father, Billy Terrell, who worked in soap operas, left. She is suing Penn for defamation, arguing its real goal in investigating her was to discredit her as a witness in and retaliate for a wrongful death suit filed against the university by the widow of a fellow student which Fierceton instigated. Mackenzie Fierceton has lost her Rhodes scholarship and her University of Pennsylvania master's degree is being held after an anonymous tipster called out alleged inaccuracies in her school and scholarship applications. And they released this quote-unquote report in April of 2021 with their findings. Yes, to my lawyer who communicated it to me. We dont believe you. She also alleged that Penn had on many occasions failed to follow its own disciplinary policies in its investigation of her.[16]. on about your day, ask yourself: How likely is it that the story you just read would have been produced by a different news outlet if The Intercept hadnt done it? And now they have to face the fact that someone who looks like them, who shares all these identities with them, could be the source of all of this harm. [i] Ruderman corroborated that later to The New Yorker, saying she was paraphrasing Fierceton's self-identification as FGLI. Shes lying, shes a spoiled brat, this, that, and the other which looking back at the time I just felt absolutely horrible. Our focus is not on the debate it reviews over Mackenzie Fierceton's accounts of her life, though we affirm her integrity. [2], Fierceton shared the information she had with Logan, who in turn took it to a law firm that investigated further. "She was falling apart under the academic stresses at school and was exhausted, and I believe looking for an out." Yes, definitely. Photograph by Robbie Lawrence for The New Yorker Mackenzie Fierceton grew up in a middle-class suburb of St. Louis. And then throughout the now a year and a half process [laughs] of different sort of invented processes that happened, eventually the university was like: OK, I guess shes low-income. It didnt, though, to the University of Pennsylvania. Her mother was arrested and charged with abuse, and Mackenzie went into foster care. Fierceton had apparently made much of her status as a 'first generation, low income' student, an abuse survivor who aged out of foster care. [2][5] It did not disclose that it had done so until March. Logan filed her wrongful death suit in August 2020, alleging Penn was negligently responsible for her husband's death through failing to make Caster properly accessible and not making SP2 develop an emergency response protocol. But they just assumed theres no way that it could have happened. Did you go into foster care? RG: And how much did she challenge your medical condition after that beating? Who would hold party elites accountable to the values they proclaim to have? She ruined her moms career. And eventually they filed a big wrongful death lawsuit in August 2020. Theyre not on a website. And please go and leave us a rating or a review it helps people find the show. And Im curious where you would pinpoint it, but I would guess that its The Philadelphia Inquirer story that started with an incorrect lead that said: Mackenzie Fierston grew up poor, something very close to that? Penn claims that was meant purely for purposes of the program, to attract as many students as possible who could benefit from participation in it. And I ended up reaching out to his widow I found her on Facebook and sent her a message just to say: You know, I think I found some information. And we have our own specific grad school definitions. Or is this something thats been overlooked? That would have to be the rationale that they would have for those childhood journals to be faked. And I asked in the email exchange: Is this about the anonymous email? We started building this, and this is exactly who we built it for. That evening that the article came out is when I got a call from the reporter saying: I got this anonymous email that said X, Y, Z, and I wanted to let you know. box, it's like you have to fit yourself in, saying: Are you the first in your family to attend? And its mentioned briefly. [1]:115 As to her previous involvement with the child welfare system, Penn says Fierceton told them she was not certain, but she was referring either to the guardian ad litem appointed for her during her parents' divorce or an earlier incident when she and her biological parents were still living in Connecticut. [2], Fierceton moved into the first of several foster homes, with one other foster sibling and two biological children of the foster parents. And I was the one who uncovered my classmates death. I think this is a conversation not necessarily for people who are still in question about what happened here. Penn, by questioning so much of Fierceton's story, was making itself "complicit in a long campaign of continuing abuse", she added. But it was in the sense of: I didnt recognize myself both because I was beaten and my face was swollen and whatever, and I felt like at rock bottom and broken. Fierceton described herself as a first-generation college applicant who came from a low-income, foster-care background. RG: So you applied for your masters in social work and there was a question of whether to check the, what Ive learned is called the FGLI box: first-generation, low-income. First of all, thats one box? So Rachel had it and Penn disputed it. Consider what the world of media would look like without The Intercept. And because you were not just low-income, actually no income, other than the jobs that you were working nobody has complained about the low-income one, right? Theres a lot of chaos. "[27], For the Penn investigation, Fierceton relied on the definition on the webpage for Penn First Plus, the university's support program for FGLI students, which includes the language about the student having a "strained or limited relationship" with the graduate parent. And I think I just share that because I think its a powerful example of if that is as far as theyre going to go when theres literal documentation from child me and that accusing me of that being faked, I really am like: I dont know, short of a video montage of instances of abuse from 6 to 16, what would convince them. She is poor, but she has not been poor for long enough. And because poverty and abuse are so pervasive in society and particularly in a country that has such a minimal social safety net and has so much violence. RG: Rather than it being for the purpose of benefiting the students themselves. [2], The trust notified Fierceton at the beginning of 2021 that it was conducting an investigation into the allegations. A college counselor suggested she apply through QuestBridge, a nonprofit that helps qualified students in need find schools that will give them full financial support. Penn filed a 130-page response two weeks later, denying all her allegations of wrongdoing and saying that the university officials and co-defendants who had investigated the case were unaware of the Driver lawsuit when they did. Like, they want to curate a diverse experience for their well-off students, so that they can say that they had this diverse experience in college . And then throughout the now a year and a half process [laughs] of different sort of invented processes that happened, eventually the university was like: OK, I guess shes low-income. Because processes become Kafkaesque very quickly. Fierceton clarified the details in question and Ruderman said she understood better. It called attention to claims, such as the one in her application essay, that by the time she was six she "knew every police officer in my county by their first name", a claim Fierceton herself admitted was untrue and born of her fear of her biological family when she wrote it. [2][h], In January 2020[4] Fierceton had a seizure and collapsed during a class for one of her graduate social work courses. Right. "[2], Fierceton answered yes. At the end of the march they were addressed by Fierceton and other FGLI students. Brandt, the Chesterfield police detective who had originally investigated the case, said later that the prosecutor never explained to her what that new evidence was. There were some pretty basic errors, such as my name, my birth name, and my birth place, and claiming that I didnt have a sibling, that I wasnt low-income, a lot of facts that were pretty easily disputed. We want to think of it as: If you were ever rich, youre always rich; if youre ever poor, youre always poor. Mackenzie Fierceton didn't come until much later, but with good reason. MF: I mean, part of it is honestly like its looking at cause we just wanted to be as thorough as possible of when [laughs] I was crying, and then I was crying and taking breaths. So yes, I know that is me. Like questioning: How much blood? And we do know for sure that she was in touch with the university. The situation was further complicated by a lack of cell phone service in the basement, requiring students to team up and verbally relay information from the 9-1-1 operator to a professor performing CPR on Driver and back to a student posted just outside the door. For all the readers could have known, there could have been a videotape of it happening. Or is that it separates two into one? Mackenzie Fierceton, a graduate student at the University of Pennsylvania, has won the prestigious and extremely competitive Rhodes Scholarship, which will allow her to study at Oxford in November 2020. And please go and leave us a rating or a review it helps people find the show. Her supporters at Penn have called for the university's acting provost, Beth Winkelstein, to be held accountable for her role in the investigation, which has been characterized as a continuation of the abuse. And then I remembered that my teacher had told me to write a gratitude list. "[20][m] A syndicated morning radio show named Fierceton its "donkey of the day". In addition it offered details of what its own investigation had concluded about Fierceton's childhood and adolescence that led OSC to believe it was likely that she had exaggerated or fabricated outright her claims about her mother. RG: in America. I really appreciate it. Theres people who span all different kinds of experiences. Im part of a wrongful death lawsuit that was filed in August, 2020. And you saw that playing out right away, right, when your biological mother was first arrested? Penn officials, of course, have said the interview was appropriate. OSC referred the recommendation to an SP2 panel to make a final determination; she has subsequently appealed the decision. And that was the end of it, right? "They are the people that support you, look out for you, & love you unconditionally. RG: And do you know Linda Tirado? [2], For her senior year, Whitfield gave Fierceton a full scholarship. If you havent read the story yet, I highly recommend pausing this, and giving it a read first, because I try not to go over too much of the same territory in my interview with her. MF: Its hard to say. They took photographs of Caster's staircases and elevators, and interviewed witnesses and some of the Penn paramedics who had responded. Penn's Office of Student Conduct recommended withholding her master's degree until she paid a fine; both conditions were dropped but a notation about the investigative finding remains in her transcript. RG: Right. Fierceton was released after four days. And she ended up responding right away, and asked to get on a phone call. This can happen to someone in my community. She feared that her mother had inflicted the injuries, perhaps out of jealousy that Lovelace was attracted to her, even as it seemed to Fierceton that Morrison was "offering [her] up to him on a silver platter". In a 25-minute conversation, she went into detail with Fierceton about her past and what she planned to do with her scholarship. And we do know for sure that she was in touch with the university. And I decided to do it cause I felt like I had nothing to lose and I ended up making gratitude lists every day for years and it really was a very healing experience for me. And what was the first-generation community like on campus? [7] The charges against Lovelace were dropped later for lack of evidence. The show was mixed by William Stanton. "We would never have believed any of it if we weren't living it." Her last set of foster parents had had a baby and she felt less a part of their lives. It seemed like there was a lack of internal emergency protocols within our grad school, the School of Social Policy & Practice. And the theme of private school definitely came up many times over the course of the last year and a half. Were close to done. So those questions came like later on and were really a part of the initial interrogation. [1]:111112, Penn's investigators asked Fierceton why she had pretended to be asking on another's behalf when she made her queries within the university. A trial was held in early 2019 at which she, Fierceton, a psychologist and a DSS investigator testified. [Laughs.] [2], Morrison's lawyer questioned Fierceton closely about apparent differences between her medical records from the hospital and her description of her injuries in a scholarship application essay the lawyer had obtained, and other details from the latter, such as the "metallic" taste of a feeding tube that was plastic and her claim that she was unable to recognize her own facial features in the hospital mirror, when her medical records showed that her injuries were well short of being even temporarily disfiguring. [2] Her father, Billy Terrell,[1] had been an actor in soap operas. And youre getting instruction from a university official that thats how youre supposed to fill it out, thats what the definition says online. One trigger for the beatings was sexual abuse by one of her mother's boyfriends, Henry Lovelace, Jr., a fitness trainer and multiple winner of the Missouri's Strongest Man competition in his weight class, which her mother warned her never to talk about. And I didnt really know any information, except for that he had had a medical emergency in class and then been pronounced dead at the hospital. And Penn is still claiming that those are fake journals. Now Im sobbing, Im hyperventilating, and the staff member interrupted and said: Can we have an estimate of how much time is left? In the presence of her mother that night at their house, Mackenzie repeated the same story to a visiting caseworker, who appeared to accept it. But it doesnt mean you were always low-income, just that you are now. I was in this private school with a lot of upper-middle class or wealthy white students. That was my personal statement. And especially, again, like these stereotypes of black and brown, low-income families, the knee-jerk reaction is like: Oh, well, theyre unequipped to be a parent. And I think psychologically one way people feel safer about it is to say: No, that happens to other people. She had wanted to appeal the Rhodes committee's findings, but Rafaelle advised her that Penn had hinted to him that it might consider referring the matter to federal prosecutors on the grounds that she had lied about being FGLI on her Free Application for Federal Student Aid form. RG: And because you were not just low-income, actually no income, other than the jobs that you were working nobody has complained about the low-income one, right? Joining is simple and doesnt need to cost a lot: You can become a sustaining member for as little as $3 or $5 a month. Mackenzie is the soap's first transgender character, added to the series after Stone wrote to executive producer Jason Herbison to pitch the character. And that is part of what felt like it gave me such a home, is because we had these sort of underlying shared experiences, but all came from different backgrounds to an extent, and all still supported and accepted one another. And then she hired a law firm and eventually they were doing their own investigation for several months. He died after a medical emergency in a basement of UPenn's Caster Building in 2018. One of them, to me, felt pretty clear that it was probably from someone in my biological family, because it had photos of me; it had very specific information that very few people would have and I dont think many people would have random childhood photos of me. So not that I think at all the population of kids who are in foster care is representative of what abuse or neglect and what households they occur or dont occur in. And Im kind of one of the lucky ones where I had really expansive and thorough documentation for all the parts of this story. [1] It appended both the Rhodes report and OSC's as exhibits. Is that just an interpretation or did they say anything that suggested to you that the fact that you had gone to a private school and grown up in an upper-middle-class situation meant that you could never at any point consider yourself low-income? MF: Yeah. Even though I had, again, written statements from two ICU nurses who took care of me saying: Yes, there was blood, [laughs] theres photographs, and there still was the argument of like, there wasnt enough blood or your face wasnt so distorted you could couldnt tell who you were. And those other people are kind of like the orphans that we think of in Dickensian novels. And the staff member saying like: I understand, can you please give Mackenzie an estimate of how many questions are left? 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